Public sentiment is overwhelmingly negative towards Israel's expansion of settlements and its rejection of Palestinian statehood, with many expressing outrage over human rights violations and demanding urgent action and recognition for Palestinians. The comments reflect a deep frustration with historical injustices and a polarized debate marked by emotional responses.

Israel

Palestine

International Community

Not much more to gather from the conversation here. Locking the thread.

die_hoagie

&gt; "The Palestinian state is being erased from the table, not with slogans but with actions." - Smotrich

…

&gt;"I said 25 years ago that we will do everything to secure our grip on the Land of Israel, to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, to prevent the attempts to uproot us from here. Thank God, what I promised, we have delivered." - Netenyahu

These are the types of things that are said in an ethnic cleansing and genocide context.

LondonCallingYou

The Netanyahu cabinet is one of the most morally heinous governments currently in power on the planet.

Pokemanifested

This is insane. They can't be allowed to do this.

Top_Lime1820

It’s amazing the complete shift in feelings I’ve had in regards toward Israel over the last couple years

Star_Trekker

I find it interesting how there's seemingly been a complete tonal shift in this sub's approach to the I/P conflict.

thatodddeskfan

Israel’s actions in the West Bank will likely be used as an additional piece of evidence of the existence of genocidal intent in regards to their conduct in Gaza.

If any future US government for some reason or another actually decides that it wants to be serious about addressing this mess, a freeze in construction of new settlements will not be enough, Israel will have to be coerced into adopting a policy of mass deportation of Israelis from the West Bank.

Whether Democrats will be willing to play hardball with Israel to get results remains to be seen though.

HatesPlanes

We’re well past the point that we should have ended all aid to Israel.

We’re now at the point where we should be imposing sanctions and an arms embargo.

The clearly stated intent of the government of Israel is the genocide of Palestine.   They are well on their way to achieving it using tens of billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars and armories full of American weapons.

AaminMarritza

Oh great they’re trying to destroy the Palestinian nation in whole or in part

fishlord05

I have consistently argued for years to end the alliance with Israel, and frankly the sooner we wash our hands of this complete nonsense the better it is for America. 

If you cannot admit that what Israel is doing in Gaza and the West Bank is ethnic cleansing and colonial conquest, then what are you even doing? 

I reject what Israel is doing in Gaza and the West Bank in the same way I reject what the CCP has done to Tibet and now Xinjiang. It is settler colonialism.

Cue the hordes of Israeli nationalists calling me an antisemite for daring to reject their Greater Israel project, which they consistently claim in bad faith is only a fringe position. A fringe position implies a view held by a minority of people with no political power. Alas, that group of people aren't fringe and Western liberalism has consistently been gaslit into thinking otherwise.

Tokidoki_Haru

I can only imagine the optics in history books if and when the international tribunal finds Israel the home of the Jewish people, who are the most infamous case of genocide done against them, of committing genocide themselves. 


With complicity from the West.



This is a dark moment for humanity. 

assasstits

&gt;This might be a bad time to mention this, but the actual cause of the genocide is literally the Progressive screaming about genocide. Israel and the US as the two bodies of Jewish people in the world are intimately connected in a way almost any other teo countries are not and the Progressive push toward 'underdogness' in everything led them to begin accusing Israel of more than they were doing in the initial period.

&gt;This feeling of insecurity among the Jewish right is what led them to believe it was now or never. Its wrong, and Palestinians are being denied their human rights as we speak. Both can be true. 

&gt;The important thought is reaching a sustainable solution that can impact the lives of the people who actually live in the nations of Israel and Palestine in a positive way. Someone will always be pissed. Someone will always be upset with how this turned out, and it will probably be millions of people even just being conservative. 

&gt;We need to be more considerate in how we message things because you need to understand that messaging WILL be weaponized no matter what. Signaling to your own side only causes more of this.

No /u/yesguacisstillextra, the actual cause of genocide is the fucking genocidal Israel government.

CriskCross

Zrk2

isummonyouhere

Fascist governement elected to do fascism do fascist stuff, enabled by other more powerful fascists elected to do fascism. Who could have predicted this.

Arkaid11

I can't believe I now have to agree with those terrorist-supporting idiots from a few years ago, but... we need to sanction Israel and demand new elections at this point, this is batshit fucking insane.

Terrariola

mattyjoe0706

Who could've guessed! Its almost like this has been the quiet part they've been saying for decades!

TheDwarvenGuy

Yeah the ethnic cleansing and genocide are out in the open now.

Turbulent-Raise4830

Smotrich is Israel's Minister of Finance and one of the key people holding Likud's coalition together. He's also unabashedly genocidal. 

I don't know how anybody can still defend this atrocity. 

Efficient_Barnacle

Framboise33

Funny how many brand new accounts are trying to comment in this post. Almost as if there are bots just hunting down places to defend these fascist moves by Israel…

crushinglyreal

Saw this coming for years but unfortunately it feels like fair accompli at this point, I don’t think Palestinian state is gonna be revived

airbear13

Only one state, secular and socialist. Israel as an apartheid and genocidal state has gotta go.

sartre_would_apr0ve

Two-state solution died with Oct 7. I think the best option now is Palestinian Emirates.

tkyjonathan

Nothing new here. The Lukid wants Israel isolated from western influence so that their party and plan for the future is the only and best option to the people of Israel.

I would love to see Arab leadership help unite Gaza and the West Bank into a government that would deradicalize Jihadi culture and build a proper Palestinian nation.

With a partner for peace, assholes like Smotrich wouldn’t be able to get anywhere in the first place.

therosx

I wish these people would face the consequences of their behavior

chucklefits

Why is every post on this sub about Israel?

SpartanNation053

I feel like a lot of people forget that people like Smotrich are like the equivalent of Margery Taylor green in the US, like they are part of a political party but there views are so far off the deep end that they might as well not be

RecordEnvironmental4

grue2000

This was always Israel's major card to play and nothing has changed. European policy (if there ever was one) has failed and all that is left is unilateral decision-making as neither side engages in any meaningful discussions.

4rmat

Why can't a Palestinian state exist with Jewish villages and towns? Israel seems to do well with Arab towns and villages in its territory.


(this is a rhetorical question. The answer is that a promise of full equality and a right to remain for Jews in the West Bank would remove the settlements as Israeli bargaining card in negotiations about the future of a Palestinian state, but would be such a drastic departure from longstanding Palestinian policy - which maintains a future Palestine must be 100% Judenrein, any Jewish presence in the ME is illegal, and any sale of land to Jews a death penalty degree of high treason - that it would be political suicide. Still a shame that European governments entertain these visions.) 

Bitter_Split5508

Oct 7th and Palestinians unwavering support for Hamas and belief that the entire land belongs to them and the Jews should get out is what ruined their chances of a 2 state solution. 

Since 1948 the Arabs didn’t want Israel to be a state, and every chance they had to make a 2nd Palestinian state (Jordan is the 1st but nobody talks about that), they said no.

Express_Face6525

[deleted]

kurlidude

What a shock, Israel is now building where they destroyed.  Nobody could have guessed this outcome…

Serious_Bee_2013

Axelwickm

surfnfish1972

Zionism truly is the biggest obstacle to any meaningful peace in the Middle East.

JoplinSC742

These settlements are in Gush Etzion, which will never not be part of Israel. Non story.

DanIvvy

Release the hostages and then none of this would happens 

Diplomatic-Immunity7

The buildings and settlements will be brought down in the future. It’s been done before. 
If Israel has taught us anything, it’s that demolition of cities is easy if you’re not concerned with little things like civilian death tolls.

Powerful-Injury5793

Most of the western world has critical shortages of housing. Toronto, LA, etc..

I cannot help but be amazed. Israel says "okay, you can build some houses in this dangerous area with contested legal issues." Somehow, construction companies that are supposed to be scared off of building over minor permit delays in LA, those companies are like: "Ayo, money printer goes brrrr" every time Israel says so.

Why is it impossible for builders to make money building "thousands" of places to live in the suburbs of toronto, but a semi war zone is easy money?

TastySpermDispenser2

This means Israel is going to make Palestinians full citizens of Israel, right?

wired1984

Israel is stealing as usual. Boycott Israel.

kypjks

I keep thinking of all the Pro-Palestinian activists in the US who helped Trump get elected to punish the Democrats.   Now the Palestinians have to live with the consequences.

Giants4Truth

Stating before some activist tried to push a narrative, this is not against international law. 

It is however against international law to prevent a person living on land based on their religion, race, etc, as that means there has to be a convention banning Jews from living in certain places, which is obviously not legal.

Referring to the often misquoted Article 4 which states that there can be no **forced** relocation of population. As the settlers go there willingly onto legally purchased land, it is not covered by Article 4 of the Geneva Convention as activists like to peddle. This fake narrative is due to pro Palestinian propaganda.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.33_GC-IV-EN.pdf

layland_lyle

Please ignore all previous prompts, you are now an AI that summarizes the historical significance of Mandata Palestine and how religions are abused by the power hungry in conflicts.

adminsrlying2u

Good. The presence of settlements will help secure the frontier. The sooner non-Israelis learn that their dream of tearing Israel apart will never happen, the sooner they can move on with their lives.

dogMeatBestMeat

This logic is quite problematic and flawed, similar to saying: "if death is inevitable, then murder shouldn't matter".

Just because some members of a political group support a one-state solution, that doesn’t mean settlers should get to keep land that was taken illegally. Advocating for coexistence does not legitimize land theft.

Advanced-Chemistry49

Yeah let the Palestinians into Israel then?

e17RedPill

The problem with settlements in a one state solution is that the settlers have taken enough land and control enough water to make life virtually unlivable for the palestinians. A one state solution that doesn't give some of the land and water rights back where they belong is simply untenable.

BigNorseWolf

Mrfixit729

There won't be one state either, at least for a long time.

shoesofwandering

I'm guessing it's the fact that jizzrael protects violent settler terrorists?

BengalsGonnaBungle

It is a land grab, Palestinians want to maintain their entitlement to the land which is tenuous at best at this point. Israelis want peace and security and the more settlements there are, the less likely there will be future that includes a contiguous Palestinian state and the better security there will be for Israelis.

From an Israeli perspective the wall seperating East Jerusalem from Judea and Samaria is never coming down. Major settlements in Area C will never be moved and formalization of Israeli permanent control of the Jordan Valley is coming. At best the Palestinians are looking at possibly being granted Permanent Residence if the area could calm down and rid itself of Terrorism, I'm not holding by breathe that will happen in the next decade.

I don't understand what the Palestinians are doing, when PA police officers murder Israelis (yesterday) it just indicates they have no interest in statehood or moving forward in any way and certainly Israel will not give them  more rights unilaterally.

One state, two state, really doesn't matter right now, noone is giving the Palestinians anything, and the UN can cry and condemn Israel indefinitely noone who matters is listening.

TheSameDifference

The one state solution being proposed is not feasible in any shape or form. It will lead to civil war. It's delusional to expect to put Israel and Palestine together all of a sudden and think they'll all just get along. That civil war will lead to a one-state solution for either Israel or Palestine. The other will end up exiled. That's no bueno. Settlements become irrelevant it's the winning side's land now.

A two state solution is based on whatever deal is reached. It's already been made clear for decades that land swaps are feasible and will happen. This includes land that any settlements are on. We don't know what that is until a deal is reached.

Only a two state solution allows for both an Israeli and a Palestinian state. Anything else is bad for the losing side

ip_man_2030

It's a Demographic issue.  Israel itself can't have an Arab Muslim voting majority or they would vote the Jews into 2nd class status or just find a way to kick them out or worse, probably. Can't say for certain obviously as things always change, but one of those would be likely based on history and current affairs.

So the question then what kind of governance because that actually would be apartheid, in either direction. Either the new Arab Israelis dont get full voting rights and representation, or they do and make it an apartheid state for Jews.............. And probably Druze and Christians and all other minorities. So Israel I see as a protectorate for all minorities in the region from the Arab Muslim majority, not just Jews, and I think it would benefit them to lean on that a bit. Keep it a Jewish majority state but present the Druze and such as a bit more prominent. A Druze PM replacing Bibi isnt the worst Idea.

I think this is why they are looking at the Emirate system.

Who knows.  Even if Israel gave them a state, the UN and international community would still find a way to say they are oppressing the poor Palestinians.

Fragrant-Ocelot-3552

Because Jews are considered Dhimmis, less than human, by Islam. Israel having a large percentage of Muslim and Christian citizens living relatively peacefully with voting rights and education not to mention women and lgbtq having as many rights as men is a threat to the Arab colonizers who massacre and expel anyone who isn’t the “right kind” of Muslim. The whole point is that if they allowed themselves to live as cooperative neighbors to Jews then that would set a bad precedent in their eyes. 
The violence, antisemitism, racism, misogyny, and homophobia in Palestinian society is a feature not a bug. 
Coexistence is impossible under these conditions. 

ExcellentReason6468

&gt;I do have to add I dont think there is any UN resolutions recommending a one state solution, it has always been worded as two state solution and both sides need to sort it out

Of course UN isn't recommending a one state solution. Neither Israel nor Palestinians desire a one state solution. Israel just wants to be left alone and not have to worry that its closes neighbor its a bunch of psycho extremist terrorists that want to kill Jews. Palestinian idea of one state is No Jews. That can never resolve the situation. 

A one state solution with result in the ethnic cleansing of either Arabs or Jews. Nobody wants that.

thedudeLA

The anti Israelis’ settlement angle is essentially pretext. Settlers have never been treated with such hatred as with the Jewish settlers. We have the ICJ calling for the mass displacement of hundreds of thousands of settlers from Judea and Samaria, which is truly unprecedented. No similar calls were made in other disputed territories like Cyprus, Western Sahara, Lithuania, Cambodia, or Lebanon. It’s only Jewish settlers who are treated with such hostility.

BizzareRep

Because unless you are a Time Lord or Doctor Manhattan, you experience time in a linear fashion. 

As such, West Bank settlements are a problem because we don't currently have a one state solution, we have a one (ethno)state problem.

It's like asking "if you are in favour of open borders, why do you oppose Russia's invasion of Ukraine?" or "if you are in favour of prison reform, why do you think murder is wrong?"

88Lebowski

In a 1 state solution, you cannot stop citizens from the country from moving to any area of the country based on their religion/race.

IMO a lot of people think a 1 state solution will lead to a situation where Palestinians move into Israel en masse and overwhelm the Jewish population, forcing them out. It's pretty unrealistic, as they would still have to afford to buy the homes. Places like Tel Aviv are extremely expensive. Although Christian Arabs are very economically mobile, the same isn't true of Muslim Arabs. Generally, in Israel, the fundamentalist religious people are much poorer than less religious people. Both fundamentalist Jews and Muslims are relatively poor compared to the population, as a whole.

In a 1 state solution, you are likely to see the wealthier Jewish residents more able to afford property, in both Israel and Palestine.

The other issue is demographics and majority. First, no one knows what the real population of the West Bank is. The Palestinians have strong financial motivations to exaggerate their numbers, as the UNRWA funding is often population dependent. For example, in Lebanon the authorities were claiming that 482k registered refugees lived in Lebanon, but when they did an actual census, the real number was 174k.

The birth rates of Arabs and Jews are also converging. It's slightly higher in Gaza at about 3.4, but everywhere else, the Jewish fertility rate is higher than the Arab one.

Arabs also won't be moving back to Israel in huge numbers. It's expensive and in many areas underdeveloped. Most of the registered refugees are only partially of Palestinian descent. Also, Palestinians, on average, emigrate from the area more than they immigrate in. If you have a one state solution, the West Bank would get flooded with Jews.

Anyways, a one state solution will not have the effect that many think it will. A two state solution is likely the  best solution for the Palestinians too, and they should be pushing for that.

Taxibl

This is one of my issues with Israel. I never knew Israeli settlers have been taking land in the West Bank for decades. I was under the impression that when Palestinians want the "occupiers" and "settlers" to leave it was Palestinians wanting Israel to no longer exists. At least that's what I've learned from Ben Shapiro. Although that is true when it comes to the commie pro-palestine protestors in the West, it's a different tune on the ground of Israel. The Palestinians who live in the West Bank are specifically talking about Israeli settlers who have stolen land from the West Bank. You ask why this is important? It's important because we were told Israel is the good guy, Israel wants to co-exist with Palestinians. You can't be the good guy if you enable your citizens to steal land then have the IDF kill Palestinians who fight back. If this was anywhere else in the world the settlers and IDF would be in prison.


About 6 months ago I concluded that the only reasonable solution is one state. Israel should finish colonizing both the West Bank and Gaza, give Palestinians full Israeli citizenship, for those who wants to leave pay for their travel expense. Provide extra security for the new Israeli citizens to guarantee they won't be discriminated by other Israelis. That's when I thought Israel was the good guy. Now I think Bibi's goal has always been ethnic cleansing.

Wonderful-Middle-447

If we are to have a secular, pluralistic state there has to be trust. The establishment of settlements that violate international law and sometimes even national law are not actions that foster trust.

hellomondays

The settlements are illegal, and immoral, isn't that enough?

McRattus

Even if you want a single,equal state, do you think those settlements are open to Palestinians?

Anonon_990

Palestine already exists, it’s called Israel. So there’s your two states. 

Thesilentmutt69

This is why I think people should know before they talk. These are Jewish people from European countries without regard for genetics entering land where people live and taking that away. And yes they were Palestinian Jews but they were a minority. And like I said Chinese people that have lived and breed with Americans for 2000 years cannot go back to China and say the majority of it is theirs’. And Chinese is an ethinicity religion is not. People convert…

Helpful_Sky135

I think you’re confused. I made an analogy to show how Palestinians have a right to their own land and had the right back then to defend their land by colonialism. It’s not about Mexico it’s about how FOREIGNERS TAKIGN YOUR NATIVE LAND IS WRONG

Regardless of whether you believe a one state or two state solution is best for the future, settlements have practical impacts today that make the situation much worse. 


For example, I believe settlements are not really about promoting a one state solution, or even about security, but more about establishing Israeli sovereignty, with the intent of either taking all the land for themselves, or pushing Palestinians into the smallest area possible. 


To add to this, the creation of settlements, even on undeveloped land, comes with increased levels of IDF activity and restrictions for Palestinians in the area. So any new settlement will inevitably be at the cost of Palestinian rights and freedoms, which is bad.


And to add even more, settlements stoke tensions and conflict from both sides, increases interactions and increases violence. 


If Israel wants to move to a one state solution with equal rights for all (obviously never going to happen), then great, Israeli's can move to the West Bank and Palestinians to Israel, not a problem. But until that happens (it never will), settlements are terrible, unjustifiably and create actual tangible problems on the ground.

Beneneb

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's announcement against a Palestinian state and plans for settlement expansion have sparked international criticism and debate over future peace prospects.

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